1831: Unknown Origins – Prologue, Part Four

Title: Unknown Origins
Author: Cyberweasel89
Media: Video Games
Topic: Fallout: New Vegas
Genre: Adventure and Romance
URL: Chapter One
Critiqued by Angie and Hiraani
Rating: M

Welcome back to Unknown Origins, the fic that tries and tries but never succeeds. And…screw it, let’s just get through the prologue. There’s not a lot left to throw at me.

Oh, and uh. *reads notes* Dr. Mitchell is a worse doctor than I initially thought, it’s highly plausible this takes place in a post apocalyptic universe with all your favorite cartoon characters, and the AJB is still around saving the world.

Yay. Let’s move on.

“Done? Good. Now, try standin’ up. Let’s see if we can get ya on yer feet.”

I mean, it’s not like she’s stood up before this, right? Right?

Doc Mitchell held out his hand, and she carefully grasped it, blushing once more at the contact.

So what level of Mary Sueism are we at, Hiraani?

Hiraani: *watches dial slowly turn* We’ve passed Rose from Titanic….

She stood up from the bed, took a step forward, and stumbled. She would’ve wiped out had the doctor not caught her as she fell forward. She looked up at him, her face a deep red. “Um… uh… um… th-thank you, d-doctor…”

Hiraani: And Shailene Woodley from anything she’s in….

“It’s alright. I figured you’d have some difficulty at first. Try to take a few steps forward. Test your legs out. Good. Now follow me over to the vigor tester machine over here.”

Here’s a thing that annoyed me about Charlotte’s Web, the book. It’s a fine book I guess, but there’s this one paragraph where Charlotte just narrates entirely what she’s doing and explicitly tells us everything she’s saying to herself. And you know exactly what I’m talking about.

She followed him over, crossing her arms under her breasts. It wasn’t that she was embarrassed by the their size, even if the material of the patient gown was very thin and really bulged out in the chest because of them.

Hiraani: We’ve passed ‘anime school girl’….

Really? I thought Cyber had a bit more self respect than to do that.

As much as she was embarrassed by the size, her arms had a much more important job in guarding her dignity. She… was bouncing…

“Good job. Your legs are in fine shape.”

She looked down sadly. “I’m… I’m five feet tall…”

“There’s nothing wrong with bein’ short. At least you’re…” he cleared his throat. “Proportionately petite.”

*a loud explosion*

Hiraani: Uh…Angie?

Yes?

Hiraani: Your Mary Sueism dial broke.

Well, why’d you break it?

Hiraani: I didn’t. The Mary Sue is too strong with this one.

*sighs, mutters something about Acme*

Okay, fine, whatever. Let’s continue.

Except these… she thought, hiking her crossed arms up a bit more under her hefty bosom.

“Now, don’t worry. Just give the Vit-o-matic Vigor Tester a try.

Is this a sex toy? Have I been tossed into a porno by a magical swamp lizard again?

Hiraani: What?

What?

We need to see what faculties come with your compact size.”

*cringes* Yup. I knew it. I knew it. Switch to the next thing.

She looked up at the strange machine before her. “Um… h-how does it work?”

“Just push the button with your palm. It’ll give ya a fortune on your prowess in various fields.”

Seems legit. Hold on. *pushes button with palm, fortune cookie falls out. Angie cracks it open and reads* ‘The days of your sanity have ended.’ Cool! It actually works!

She reached a hand forward and pressed the button. The machine began flipping through various phrases before coming to a stop. Strength… Lightweight. Perception without glasses… Squinting Newt. Perception with glasses… Sniper Hawk. Endurance… Handle with Care. Charisma… Diplomat. Intelligence… Smartypants. Agility… Walks on Water. Luck… Stacked Deck.

Hmm…I don’t know, I think the fortune cookie thing works better. *grabs a cookie for Mary, cracks it open* ‘Those bullets should have killed you.’ Wowwee!

“Well, your agility is top notch. Charisma and Intelligence are really good, too” Doc Mitchell mused, sounding impressed.

“But… my strength and endurance… they’re…” she said sadly.

Nobody’s perfect. But I’m sure you’ll find a way to prove me wrong.

Not because I think you’re perfect, but because you’re a Mary Sue and I hate you.

“Below-average is all. I wouldn’t worry about that. Now, how about you come into the next room and I give ya a quick psych test? Gotta make sure them bullets didn’t leave you nutty in the head.”

I think you mentioned that at some point, so….

*BLARING ALARMS BLARE*

Ugh.

He led her into the next room. She followed quietly behind, her arms still crossed under her breasts not for coverage, but for support… as embarrassing as that was.

There are so many things in this fic that I wish I never read. Why did I take up fic reviewing anyway? I’d rather serve burgers to bratty people who can’t grill for themselves.

“Just have a seat on the couch. I’ll ask you a few questions.”

She took a seat, squeezing her legs together and sitting up straight in a very rigid and unrelaxed sitting pose.

…wait. No. No, you don’t mean…YOU CAN’T MEAN….

“All right. I’m gonna say a word. You just say the first word that comes to mind. Dog.”

Oh God, here we go.

“Um… cat.”

“House.”

“Uh… sh-shelter.”

“Night.”

“D-Dream.”

“Bandit.”

She swallowed hard. “Um… c-crush.”

“Light.”

“Uh… inspiration?”

“Mother.”

“Regret?”

Riveting dialogue. Truly. The paradigm of all the dialogue that has ever been. Even better than the meat in Master of the Universe. Truly great.

“Okay, now I’ve got a few statements. I want you to tell me if they sound like somethin’ you’d say.”

She wasn’t sure why that came to mind… she couldn’t even remember ever having a mother… “Um… o-okay.”

Alright! Time for even more riveting dialogue!

“First one. Conflict just ain’t in my nature.”

“Uh… s-strongly agree.”

“I ain’t given to relyin’ on others for support.”

“Um… Strongly disagree.”

“I’m always fixin’ to be the center of attention.”

“S-Strongly disagree!”

“Easy there. I’m not accusin’ you of anythin’.”

She blushed, averting her gaze from the doctor. “S-Sorry.”

“It’s okay. Next one… I’m slow to embrace new ideas.”

“Uh… strongly disagree?”

“I charge in to deal with my problems head on.”

“S-Strongly disagree.”

Alright! Well, this has been fun, but I have to lea—

Anti Joke Brigade Officer #2: *holds a gun to Angie’s head*

okay nevermind im sorry.

“Almost done here.” He turned around and grabbed some flashcards from behind his back, holding up an inkblot drawing. “What do ya say ya have a look at this. Tell me what ya see.”

*peers into the inkblot* Hmm. I don’t know, it looks like one of Niel’s drawings.

Niel: *gives Angie a picture he drew*

Aw, Niel! That’s going up on the fridge! Thank you sweetie!

“A b-broken chain… I think…”

“Okay. How ’bout this one?” He flipped to the next one.

She immediately blushed and looked away. “I’m… I’m too embarrassed t-to say what it looks like…”

How does it look so specifically like this one thing that there’s no way you can otherwise define the painting? It’s like that picture with the duck/rabbit thing.

Ah! It’s a naked lady!

“That’s okay. Now, this is the last one.”

“A… a light in the darkness.” On second glance, it looked more like two bears high-fiving…

*gestures widely* See? This sentence gets it!

He set the cards aside. “Well, that’s all she wrote.”

She gave a sigh of relief. All this attention was making her head swim…

I know this is probably an actual metaphor, but all I can think of is that scene in Alice in Wonderland where Alice is crossing a mast by walking on stone heads.

That was a weird movie.

Well, that’s all she wrote. I’m Angie, and…please find something better to do with your lives.

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62 Comments on “1831: Unknown Origins – Prologue, Part Four”

  1. AdmiralSakai says:

    Strength… Lightweight. Perception without glasses… Squinting Newt. Perception with glasses… Sniper Hawk. Endurance… Handle with Care. Charisma… Diplomat. Intelligence… Smartypants. Agility… Walks on Water. Luck… Stacked Deck.

    I smell incoming waif-fu bullshit.

    • Leider Hosen says:

      Because I have a keen eye for detail and have nothing better to do:

      In-Game you are given 40 points to allocate to your stats at the start of the game. The Sue has 47 points worth of abilities, so her score is impossibly high. This includes her two lowest stats being 4/10 (and her LAMENTING how poor they are), two 7/10s, a 9/10, and a perfect 10/10.

      This alone would be understandable, since math isn’t fun, but in fanfic you have to consider logical consistency and predictably her stats make no fucking sense.

      She’s a pint-size (which makes it a miracle she’s survived as a courier this long) so it makes sense she has below-average strength and endurance, but her Agility is fucking ten. The dwarf with jumbo funbags, who doesn’t have a lot of physical strength or endurance, is apparently an Olympian gymnast, despite the fact that IRL physical fitness is extremely important in that field. Obviously this runs on the animu logic of “smaller = faster”.

      Predictably her charisma and intelligence are both way above average… even though she’s displayed as much people skills as my left shoe and she took a pair of bullets to the face that severely hindered her ability to recall long-term memory, which means a lot of her advanced knowledge from experience should be muscle-memory only. And before you say “oh who needs skill with speech when you have a pretty face”

      …Yeah, she has a gaping void where her eye used to be and probably a bald spot with a horrible scar on her forehead, that’s going to be a turnoff even in the hellscape of the Mojave Wasteland.

      So yeah, these stats in no way reflect her actual abilities and are just to show off.

    • Leider Hosen says:

      OH, and in the haze of sleepyness I forgot the hands down dumbest stat:

      Her perception is 9, fucking 9, a nearly perfect score. WITH ONE EYE. AND GLASSES.

      I understand that some people actually have more than 20/20 Vision when they are wearing glasses. My father has extremely sharp vision, he’s just very short-sighted and needs glasses to correct it, but you’d think losing an eye and being reliant on glasses would disqualify her from maxing out the damn stat, no matter how good her vision in the one eye is.

    • *shrugs* I was an incredibly dumb teenager.

  2. AdmiralSakai says:

    Gotta make sure them bullets didn’t leave you nutty in the head.”

    As opposed to being nutty in… the pancreas?

  3. AdmiralSakai says:

    “Um… cat.”

    “House.”

    “Uh… sh-shelter.”

    “Night.”

    “D-Dream.”

    “Bandit.”

    She swallowed hard. “Um… c-crush.”

    “Light.”

    “Uh… inspiration?”

    “Mother.”

    “Regret?”

    ‘Fic?

    Bad.

  4. Jon Arbuckle says:

    “Welcome back to Unknown Origins, the fic that tries and tries but never succeeds,”

  5. Jon Arbuckle says:

    “Um… uh… um… th-thank you, d-doctor…”

  6. Leider Hosen says:

    *sighs, mutters something about Acme*

    You see, this is why I taught myself how to detect a Sue from sheer instinct… though you should always remember to keep the respawn chambers warmed up should you do that.

  7. Leider Hosen says:

    Hmm…I don’t know, I think the fortune cookie thing works better. *grabs a cookie for Mary, cracks it open* ‘Those bullets should have killed you.’ Wowwee!

    Yet another thing that made a lot more sense and was better presented in the game. See that’s the pain of properly novelizing things: it takes a lot of work to make stuff look not-stupid, and even then some things outright don’t work in a realistic tense.

    The vigor-tester is like one of those 25-Cent pulse machines you see in stores as a fun way to burn quarters. I don’t think any level of fancy, retrofuturist 23rd century technology could allow such a simple device to accurately gauge your skills.

    Then again, if it was built by Vault Tec who the fuck knows. They’ve made all kinds of impossible bullshit possible, as Fallout fully subscribes to the classic idea that science is a magical force that makes sciencey stuff happen, which is why we have plasma guns, robots, and atomic cars, but don’t have transistors, which is why tech is still all bulky and stuff.

    • AdmiralSakai says:

      Serketry and I have gotten into a lot of discussion about how on a fundamental level the physics of the Fallout universe is just different from our own, so a lot of the strange technology we see- while impossible in reality- makes perfect sense as having evolved under different engineering constraints and exploiting different processes. Nuclear energy is much easier to obtain with less support equipment and much smaller fuel masses, transistors are probably actually impossible but other processes can be used to perform computational logic within tubes that are probably more similar in processing capability to a modern integrated circuit, etc. etc.

    • Yeah, if I ever write another “from the start” Fallout: New Vegas fic, I’ll probably just cut out the Vigor Tester. I do have one planned, but it picks up after Primm in the questline. It’s notably featuring a male Courier just so I avoid getting remotely close to this trainwreck again.

  8. BatJamags says:

    Doc Mitchell held out his hand, and she carefully grasped it, blushing once more at the contact.

    OH GOD FUCKING DAMMIT WOULD YOU STOP BLUSHING CONSTANTLY YOU LITTLE FUCKING-

    *Tranquilized*

    GoodJamags: I’ve loaded my darts with surgical-grade chill pills, so we shouldn’t have any… incidents.

    GoodJamags: I hope.

    • BatJamags says:

      She stood up from the bed, took a step forward, and stumbled. She would’ve wiped out had the doctor not caught her as she fell forward. She looked up at him, her face a deep red. “Um… uh… um… th-thank you, d-doctor…”

      I’LL TURN THIS ENTIRE FIC A DEEP RED!

      *Tranquilized*

      GoodJamags: Chill.

      NO!

      *Double-tapped*

      GoodJamags: Yes.

  9. BatJamags says:

    Now follow me over to the vigor tester machine over here.

    *Snerk* What?

    vigor tester machine

  10. BatJamags says:

    She followed him over, crossing her arms under her breasts. It wasn’t that she was embarrassed by the their size, even if the material of the patient gown was very thin and really bulged out in the chest because of them.

    As much as she was embarrassed by the size, her arms had a much more important job in guarding her dignity. She… was bouncing…

    “Good job. Your legs are in fine shape.”

    She looked down sadly. “I’m… I’m five feet tall…”

    “There’s nothing wrong with bein’ short. At least you’re…” he cleared his throat. “Proportionately petite.”

    Fic, just… shut up. Shut the fuck up. This information is not at all helpful to me. If I wanted to read porn, which I don’t, I would go fucking look for porn. If you want to write porn, which may or may not be the case, then just fucking write porn.

    Neither of these things is happening, so kindly shut the fuck up about how totally huge your OC’s breasts are.

    • BatJamags says:

      Except these… she thought, hiking her crossed arms up a bit more under her hefty bosom.

      GoodJamags: Hey, Bats, you missed a spot.

      *Seethes*

    • Dude, I was young, stupid, and hormonally pubescent when I wrote this. I’m a lot more reserved about sexuality in my fanfics now. Rest assured, I save the tits for the lemons and erotica.

      • BatJamags says:

        Yeah, sorry, I probably went a bit overboard there. The faux-angry ranting is kind of cathartic, so sometimes I forget when it’s not really called for.

      • Leider Hosen says:

        We all like to act mean and stuff, but really it’s just us venting our aggravation in a safe environment and getting some ejamakayshunal value out of it. We may refer to “the author” when we’re ranting, but really all our flames are directed at the fic and we have no ill will towards the author unless they knowingly write something relentlessly awful and sadistic, ala Chris Chan or Thomas. The hyperbole is just to make it more entertaining.

      • Oh, don’t worry, I know and fully understand. I offered this bad!fic of mine up on a sacrificial post because I wanted to see this shit. XD

  11. BatJamags says:

    “Now, don’t worry. Just give the Vit-o-matic Vigor Tester a try.

    Just to see if your VIM GAUGE is high enough to lift the MEGATON KEY, I guess. It better be, since there’s clearly not a lot of PULCHRITUDE or IMAGINATION here.

  12. BatJamags says:

    “Bandit.”

    She swallowed hard. “Um… c-crush.”

    Uh, what?

  13. Angie’s saying “Mary Sue” so much it’s starting to lose meaning. But then again, did the term ever even have meaning? At one point, possibly. But now it’s used so much for so many different characters that it’s no longer a matter of “what IS a Mary Sue.” The term has such a broad definition these days that the question is now “What ISN’T a Mary Sue.”

    • BatJamags says:

      I tend to limit the term to meaning a particular character (occasionally a small group of characters, or, in cases like The Shadow Warriors, a group of characters as a whole rather than as individuals) who gets some form of special treatment from the narrative. That includes, but is not quite limited to, receiving narrative/authorial focus while not driving the plot, receiving in-universe attention when not doing anything to warrant it, and receiving special/unique abilities or items without a compelling explanation or reason for having them.

      Another way to think of it is that usually, characters exist to serve the plot. When the plot is crafted to serve a character, the author has prioritized spoiling “their” character like a child (with attention if nothing else) over telling a story to the audience. In effect, the story has ceased to be a communicative endeavor and is now merely a very public recreation of the author’s personal fantasy, hence why Mary Sues tend to drag down any story they appear in.

      While I would characterize our eyepatch-sporting heroine (who I… think still hasn’t been named?) as a Mary Sue, I’ll admit I also don’t see what about the specific lines Angie was referring to was any more or less Sueish than the rest of the chapter.

      I’m waxing academic again, aren’t I? Sorry about that. I’ll shut up now.

      • Well, from what I understand, the “core definition” of “Mary Sue” is a wish fulfillment fantasy that makes the character too perfect to be considered reasonable or likeable, such as Kirito from Sword Art Online. And I insist on saying “too perfect” out of a disbelief that a character can be 100% perfect, and I also refuse to define Mary Sues as “perfect characters” because then no character would be a Mary Sue.
        Admittedly, while the main character of this fanfic is unrealistically good in several places that don’t make sense, she’s hardly a character I wanted to be when I was writing her at the time, but rather, a character I wanted to see. So in a way, she IS a wish fulfillment fantasy, albeit in the sense of wanting to see scenarios and traits play out, rather than wanting to be the character. I mostly pitched this fanfic with the hook that MC-chan was a Mary Sue because I see this term used on the site a lot and figured she’d get labeled as such regardless.
        There is, however, notably a conundrum when it comes to writing female characters. If she’s too good at things, she’s called a Mary Sue (male example, but Kirito is just too good of one), but if she’s too bad at things, she’s called useless (Sakura from Naruto). I’m not sure if it’s a matter of needing to strike a balance or simply a matter of not being able to please everyone.

    • Leider Hosen says:

      Well a couple things:

      1). Around these parts, I wouldn’t take anything too seriously. Rule of Funny trumps most others unless we are saying something intended to be informative or our honest opinion. At this point coming up with endless ways to say “Sue/Stu” is a joke in itself.

      2). I think everyone has their own definition of Mary Sue, and their own opinion of whether that makes a character bad or not. Saitama is one of my favorite fictional characters, and I wouldn’t say he’s a Gary Stu even though he has godlike invulnerability, but for a particular set of reasons. Context matters.

      For this reason, I’d say my ex-bestie’s characters were horribly Gary Stu even in fics where the char wasn’t physically or mentally the strongest cast member. Yes, they were “balanced” (save a couple really dumb ones), and not excessively handsome or well-equipped in the context of the work, but they still existed solely to boost the insatiable ego of a colossal narcissist and were actively detrimental to the canon the fics took place in, which more than qualifies.

      It’d be really hard to write a full comprehensive list of what traits make a Sue a “true” Sue, but I’d say your character here is a “light” Sue. She has unrealistic combat proficiency, a very over-the-top outward appearance that’s mysteriously seen as attractive despite the damage, and doesn’t seem hindered or held back by her “morality” as it were (she lost an eye but it doesn’t seem to limit her ability to navigate or perceive distance save with guns).

      However, she isn’t really that bad. She isn’t actively being a dick and harassing the other characters, not demanding their attention or trying to outdo them at everything, and this fic seems interested in telling a story and not just being an endless wankfest.

      So yeah, as unrefined as you were, you were still a marathon ahead of the worst we’ve seen.

      • Yeah, I know that the Mary Sue joke is part and parcel with this place, but I do still have a bit of a pet peeve for how often the term is thrown around and how broad a definition its starting to develop. I mean, people were called Rey from Star Wars: The Force Awakens a Mary Sue just because of her learning curve.

        MC-chan here has some Sue qualities, like being well-liked by people and usually making the right decisions, but part of the point of this fanfic was things turning out better in canon, and people liking you is actually the point of the Charisma stat in the Fallout series, which MC-chan is about maxed in, as shit of an excuse as that is. Aside from that, I consider massive insecurities, introversion, a nervous stutter, and short height to be pretty big flaws not commonly seen in Mary Sues.

        On the subject of not outdoing others at everything, this actually becomes a bit of a theme later on. She ends up gathering a group of allies that have min-maxed specialties in things she can’t do, like repair work, medicine, and mercantile prowess. The only thing she really exceeds at that none of them have is leadership, to the point it actually becomes an insecurity with her. While it’s not touched upon as much as I would’ve liked pubescent Cyberweasel to have, she starts to feel like she’s not pulling her own weight compared to her companions.

      • Leider Hosen says:

        Honestly I feel like it shows in the work, it’s just muddled by novice mistakes that caused the execution to fall on it’s face and potentially good ideas to come out very, very wrong.

        I.e.: Trying to make a Courier that was a good leader but suffered introversion and anxiety, but the source of this angst and what her worries are aren’t explored much and how this condition is shown is extremely obnoxious and unrealistic.

        Logical consistency is important in both the plot and the chars, and it’s not about making something the most realistic per se, it’s about something being believable and making narrative sense, otherwise known as suspension of disbelief. Once you strike a good balance between real world logic and experiences and fantasy, you can do some amazing things, but it’s hard work and it takes LIFE EXPERIENCE, something you don’t have when you’re a teen.

      • True dat. I like to think I’ve improved since this trainwreck. At least I can keep my hormones in better check, for one.

      • BatJamags says:

        I mean, people were called Rey from Star Wars: The Force Awakens a Mary Sue just because of her learning curve.

        This is where defining what is meant by “Mary Sue” comes into play. Under the definition I usually operate on (undue focus and showering with goodies that other characters have to work for), she’s not only a Mary Sue, but a flagrant and almost hilariously exaggerated one.

        Under what seems to be Hosen’s definition, she’s probably only a borderline Sue, if that, since (going by what he said above, though I don’t want to put words in his mouth) she’s just too bland to be offensive, and is therefore at worst a victim of somewhat sloppy writing.

        Under your definition of a wish fulfillment fantasy, she’s not a Mary Sue at all, just a poorly-developed protagonist.

        Regardless, I consider her to be a poorly-conceived and poorly-executed character whose only narrative purpose is to be shoved down the audience’s collective throat as the Luke equivalent in the plot’s quest to rip off an earlier installment of the same damned franchise.

      • Leider Hosen says:

        I had a long argument with FishSlayer about this, and I think that while Rey pushes it I agree with Fish: Rey is not a Mary Sue, but they did a piss poor job of showing the reasons why.

        Rey’s proficiency with machines and a lightsaber can actually be explained by her scavenging career. Since her life depends on her ability to dismantle imperial technology (which was some of the most advanced of its time) and sort what’s junk from what can be used and repaired, it makes sense she would become very good with equipment and likely have the know-how to repair the Millennium Falcon, which was severely outdated even in A New Hope (which was part of its charm: old but reliable)

        She’s also probably no stranger to fights. Her planet is a backwater shithole in the middle of nowhere, so she’s probably had to fight off rivals and bandits many times before and roaming the dunes has put her top physical condition. Considering Lightsabers are nigh-weightless, it’d probably be easy to handle to her.

        As for her beating Kylo, the whole point of Darth Linkin is that he’s an unworthy heir and an unstable teen. He may be a Sith with strong force powers, but not an opponent too powerful for Rey to fight.

        Now, the one place where we debated intensely, and I still don’t agree with, is how quickly Rey used force powers. Fish believes that Luke also had a bit of Stu in him and Rey isn’t any worse, while I say Luke had some level of progression whilst Rey was able to learn AND use moves that she didn’t even know existed with no training. In the end we both agreed the Force is kind of a Deus Ex Machina and inconsistent with how powerful it is, so we let that slide.

        To me, a character’s abilities are not what makes the Sue, it’s how believable they are. I have some very, very overpowered characters on my roster (Anime influences again), but I very deliberately make sure they don’t break established rules and their proficiency has an explanation. Some outliers are just naturally powerful, but even then it took a lifetime of hard training or some form of esoteric enhancement to reach full potential, and there are rivals who can match them or extending circumstances where brute force isn’t the best answer and they are reprimanded for abusing their strength.

        What they use the powers FOR is another issue for me. I said I fully absolve Saitama for having god powers.. but that’s because OPM is a parody but also his powers create a very interesting, very deep existential crisis that enriches his character and personality, rather than playing him unironically as a boring invincible hero and dumbing him down. The characters in-universe also react realistically: they do not bow down and worship him but call bullshit and face him with scorn and ridicule, very gradually realizing he really is that powerful and growing to respect him.

        Contrast Stuble Six: He has shitloads of overpowered God Mode powers and enhancements, and he’s a belligerent, unrepentant horrible asshole to everyone he meets. And yet nobody calls him out for it, everyone bows down and respects him, he can do no wrong and everything he does has some excuse to absolve him, and the narrative treats his every asshole move as a justifiable and good thing. He constantly puts people in danger and has no regard for the health and safety of anyone but his waifus, but when he tips ‘le fedora we’re supposed to swoon.

        This is why calling out a Mary Sue/Gary Stu is very case by case, to me it’s complicated. Sometimes it’s easy to identify, sometimes it isn’t, it all depends.

        Long post is long.

      • Well, agreed, very intelligently thought out and analyzed. But something to note throughout the movie is that Rey only ever used Force abilities AFTER Kylo Ren had used the same one on her. Kylo Ren is essentially acting as Rey’s teacher by example, and by experiencing these force powers, she’s realizing how they work and they’re unlocking a hidden potential in her. Hopefully how she’s so gifted will be explained in the later movies.

    • Angie says:

      To be perfectly honest, when we started talking and you mentioned all the reasons why Unknown Origins is quite the fic, the Mary Sue part kinda stuck out to me because I haven’t really tackled a Mary Sue other than Scarlet. (Scarlet was so over the top that calling her a Mary Sue was actually giving her too much credit.) Plus the fact that the author herself came out and said that the Courier is a Mary Sue was kinda funny to me. PLUS, since I refuse to call her the Courier and I want to give her an actual name, calling her Mary Sue (not including Hiraani and Queenie calling her Ms. Sue or Master Sue) seemed like the best choice at the time. It’s gotten old quick, but goddamnit I intend to beat this dead horse until it dies again.

      • Angie says:

        Too long didn’t read, I make bad jokes that go on for way too long, hey I’m Angie nice to meet you.

      • Yeah, I did pitch the idea that she was a Mary Sue. That was partly because I knew the Library liked their Mary Sues (for the material they bring in), and I figured MC-chan had enough Sue qualities worth riffing. So… relax, Angie. You’re just doing your job. ;)

      • Angie says:

        Oh, I’m totally relaxed. I’m definitely not on my twelfth coffee in a row. *is visibly shaking and holding a mug of coffee*

      • Angie. Does the Snark Crew have to stage an intervention?

        • GhostCat says:

          Meh, she’ll be fine; she’s still drinking liquid coffee out of a cup. It only gets serious if you start cutting multiple slices off of Taco’s coffee-loaf – you have to eat those fast before they start dissolving the plate and if you eat an entire loaf you start hearing colors.

      • BatJamags says:

        *GoodJamags hauls in five heavy-looking bags of chill pills*

        GoodJamags: Wait, it’s intervention time already? Crap, I should’ve gotten more of these. I need this much for Bats alone.

        Please, I’m chill as shit.

        GoodJamags: Yes, because I have to constantly give you all these frickin’ chill pills. Hold these bags while I place another order with the PCC.

      • Angie says:

        *visibly stuffing loafs of Taco’s coffee-loaf into mouth, muffled* Yeah, I mean, that’d be crazy. Ha ha.


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